Curse

Nurse With Wound · Jan 04, 2007, 03:40 AM // 03:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

Also I'm not opening a thread just to say 8v8 should not come back because of these builds because that will just get closed. .

You are mistaken. Such thread wont be closed if you guys keep it civil. It might lead to interesting discussion. Dont offtopic here, because sadly, we will be forced to close this one. This is no build discussion, but poll thread. Post here how you've voted and why. Dont hijack threads. Please

tomcruisejr · Jan 04, 2007, 01:41 PM // 13:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

Nurse I am trying to give my reasons why 8v8 is bad thank you. If that means disscussing why in terms of builds, why cant I do that without being called ignorant and being insulted for having a different point of view to the others?

no point dude. the mods want 8vs8 too so they'll refute pro 6vs6 posts and delete the posts that ridicule the crap reasoning of those in favor of 8vs8.

Bastian · Jan 04, 2007, 02:05 PM // 14:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nilator

I vote 6v6, spike teams, SF, and most likely spirit spam teams would be to over powered.

Allow me to disagree. In 6v6 these builds are overpowered and easy because there is not enough room to take counters for all the FOTM's.

The exact reason I want 8v8 back is because, I can run balanced builds again, and not have to sacrifice anything to counter these builds. Right now, there just isn't enough room to have a decent defense and offense if you decide to bring along utility characters to shut down FOTM's.

Rui · Jan 04, 2007, 02:15 PM // 14:15

i still wonder how people can have fun playing 6v6 ha... cause that seems impossible to me

Nurse With Wound · Jan 04, 2007, 02:24 PM // 14:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomcruisejr

no point dude. the mods want 8vs8 too so they'll refute pro 6vs6 posts and delete the posts that ridicule the crap reasoning of those in favor of 8vs8.

Conspiracy theory ftw. And of course we also fabricated the poll, and wrote all pro 8v8 posts under fake names. It was all secretly planned in some dark cellar with JR and DivineShadows. Got your tinfoil hat today Syra? Your post is ridiculus, all that is deleted are flames and offtopic posts which are usually around 10% of this section. You're seriously lucky you havent seen what some above mentioned people posted here before. I wont go into this matter further because its a waste of time. End of offtopic, please, for the last time .

Vital · Jan 04, 2007, 03:20 PM // 15:20

I am amazed that there is still even any debate on this subject.

The change to 6 v. 6 was a mistake. This mistake was made because Anet failed to use common sense while studying the subject of what changes needed to be made to HA. 6 v. 6 became popular and promotable for one main reason. It was popularized due to the fact it was tested on a double fame weekend.

8 v. 8 was never a problem, the skill unbalance was the problem.

No matter if it is 1 v.1 or 100 v. 100, people WILL find a FoTM build that is used to gain easy, or more probable, victory through clever manipulation of the skills at hand. Because that is the case, and should be the case, I find it much more paletable to have the ability to counter these builds with the extra utility gained by building around 8 people.

Lastly, I would like to mention that [OUT] rarely ever HA's as a guild these days due to the fact that 6 v. 6 is inferior. We used to have a strong Halls presence and enjoyed it. Now when people ask why we dont help go get favor for America...well, you already know the reason.

"No, sir, I didn't like it."

axe · Jan 04, 2007, 04:06 PM // 16:06

Ive seen some good stuff in 6v6 lately. I think the main problem at the moment is lack of quality players which contributes to a lot of skips. If there were less skips and more quality players a good number of the current FOTMs would have to adapt a different strategy. HOWEVER I do believe 8v8 was better, Im just starting to realize that 6v6 isnt THAT bad.

If they would bring back Burial mounds and change back broken tower I think we would see a few changes with the current FOTMs as well. But the problem Anet will face is that as long as there is a good probability of major skips people will continue to run ultra defensive builds, and they are not going to be able to prevent skips as long as the HA community is no longer playing (due to the 6v6 situation) so I feel Anet has really no choice but to set it back to 8v8 and get the arena packed again (hopefully).

But Broken Tower is seriously hilarious right now as it feels like a total crap shoot. Never know whos going to win and having it as the second map it can get annoying.

Also twice in one night we got a 1v1 on scarred earth, that is just SAD and truly is a testament of how few are playing. I like 6v6, I like 8v8 but the majority likes 8v8 and those players are really what makes HA better, so lets bring back some players.

JR · Jan 04, 2007, 05:53 PM // 17:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomcruisejr

no point dude. the mods want 8vs8 too so they'll refute pro 6vs6 posts and delete the posts that ridicule the crap reasoning of those in favor of 8vs8.

Remember when I was deleting all of the flame posts in the old 6v6 thread, and got accused of doing it because I was pro 6v6? Haha, grow up, please.

Divineshadows · Jan 04, 2007, 06:07 PM // 18:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomcruisejr

no point dude. the mods want 8vs8 too so they'll refute pro 6vs6 posts and delete the posts that ridicule the crap reasoning of those in favor of 8vs8.

Let me make this clear. I wanted 6v6 originally, because I felt that it would weaken spike, force bad and inexperienced players to improve quicker because they become harder to hide in 6v6, and make it harder for teams to hold halls for an extended period (which IMO more turnover is a good thing). While it clearly weakened spike, too many players left HA to either play other PvP formats more often or play a different game entirely. With the number of quality teams having gone way down as a percentage of the number of total teams, I often saw messages indicating that teams were holding longer on average due to inferior competition and far too many heroes in HA. So, I am in favor of bringing back 8v8, because I suspect that the competition level would increase again.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nurse With Wound

It was all secretly planned in some dark cellar with JR and DivineShadows. Got your tinfoil hat today Syra?

Perhaps Syra knows the truth that aliens are controlling society and the major governments in the world?

Quote:

Originally Posted by axe

But Broken Tower is seriously hilarious right now as it feels like a total crap shoot. Never know whos going to win and having it as the second map it can get annoying.

QFT. It was always stupid to have an altar map this early in the progression. I can see the logic behind changing it to 3 way as this change alone certainly made fame farming much more difficult. Still, it is no fun to face two teams each with multiple copies of AoE spells such as sandstorm or searing flames all getting dumped on the altar while your ghostly happily attacks through all the sandstorms. As the 2nd map in the progression, there hasn't been sufficient time for good teams to beat these bad AoE focused teams on deathmatch and relic run maps. I have not encountered two AoE focused teams on Courtyard.

Broken Tower should have been changed to a straight up untimed deathmatch with an obelisk in the center and had the rez orbs replaced with flags to control the obelisk and morale boosts from holding the obelisk for 2 minutes.

elektra_lucia · Jan 04, 2007, 10:42 PM // 22:42

Having Aliens would explain things. Don't tell me I'm wrong, we all know it's true!

phasola · Jan 05, 2007, 12:11 AM // 00:11

I want 8v8 back for all those "Can i join your guild" pms

.

Mental Leteci · Jan 05, 2007, 02:55 PM // 14:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by phasola

I want 8v8 back for all those "Can i join your guild" pms

.

You mean for that one "Can i join your guild" pm?

phasola · Jan 05, 2007, 03:00 PM // 15:00

Quote:

You mean for that one "Can i join your guild" pm?

At least i don't get love pms

.

Alazare · Jan 05, 2007, 03:09 PM // 15:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by phasola

At least i don't get love pms

.

You have a PM

phasola · Jan 05, 2007, 03:11 PM // 15:11

RIPTARD !
I meant ingame love messages

. Leteci Fan Club [GaY] now recruiting.

Our Lady Of Sorrow · Jan 05, 2007, 03:23 PM // 15:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by phasola

RIPTARD !
I meant ingame love messages

. Leteci Fan Club [GaY] now recruiting.

no one has the right to call riptide "riptard" apart from me! thank you very much!

8v8 is the way to go, its easy to see..
go back to how it used to be, 8v8, burial mounds, and a nicceeeeeee biiiiggggg skill balance

i was looking forwards to a nice minion and searing nerf.. but all we got was making gvg extremely gay

Etrik · Jan 05, 2007, 06:11 PM // 18:11

Free bump, if we get more votes on this we might see some real, serious discussions with the devs on this subject. Even if they don't change it, I want us to have a real talk with them about it.

Misa · Jan 05, 2007, 06:33 PM // 18:33

isn't it obvious?.... im not the only one whinning for 8v8 the 2nd day 6v6 came out.

.................. and please dont change all the maps in HA -,-;;

Hambones · Jan 05, 2007, 10:26 PM // 22:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vital

The change to 6 v. 6 was a mistake. This mistake was made because Anet failed to use common sense while studying the subject of what changes needed to be made to HA. 6 v. 6 became popular and promotable for one main reason. It was popularized due to the fact it was tested on a double fame weekend.

8 v. 8 was never a problem, the skill unbalance was the problem.

No matter if it is 1 v.1 or 100 v. 100, people WILL find a FoTM build that is used to gain easy, or more probable, victory through clever manipulation of the skills at hand. Because that is the case, and should be the case, I find it much more paletable to have the ability to counter these builds with the extra utility gained by building around 8 people.

my sentiments exactly...

bring back 8v8!

RandomEngy · Jan 05, 2007, 11:20 PM // 23:20

So reading this thread it looks like 75% is just saying "8v8 is awesome, 6v6 is boring" without bringing up any points.

I've only gleaned a few real arguments:

1) 8v8 is better because you have more skill combinations to work with.

What? So 10v10 is even better than 8v8, mathematically? This is just a terrible argument.

2) 8v8 is better because there is better competition.

So is the a problem with the 6v6 format? No, it's just with people stubbornly opposed to 6v6.

3) 8v8 is better because spikes work well.

That's a matter of opinion, but I guess if you just love spike-counterspike play you're going to like 8v8. Personally, I don't like it at all.

4) 8v8 is better because you have more viable builds.

Might seem true on the surface. But list me every viable build out there, and I'll tell you a different build that can (and does) beat all of them. This indicates to me that variety in 6v6 is far from tapped out. Give people a bit more time to figure it all out. Since the inception of 6v6, the number of commonly seen builds has been increasing. The same thing happened with 8v8; it started out with few viable builds (remember air spike?) then through a couple judicious skill changes (which we can expect soon for 6v6) we saw more variety.

So why do so many people want 8v8 back? I think it's just people who are sad their old builds don't work and aren't able to figure out a new build that works consistently in 6v6. My hope is that after the skill rebalancing people can try out HA again and just get over it.